Narcisissm

[Petra]

First - sorry if I spelled this wrong. It is late, I have had a glass of wine,and I'm headed to bed. :)

 

However, this is seriously, no shit.  I saw MQ's post and didn't read all the way through it cuz I'm getting ready for bed, but narcissits are not just your Spouse or Ex or BF or whatever. 

 

Our family had an encounter with a Narcisist.  It was a coach (goolge it - narcissists love to be coaches!).  They are so unbelievably manipulative.  They lead you in and stab you in the back, make it look like you are the bad guy, and make you feel totally like shit - yeah, they are that good! 

 

I am the type of person who likes to see the good in everyone.  i struggle with the narcissist thing.  Can't I help that person ???  The answer to that is unless you are willing to put some full time effort into that person, then, No. You can't help.

 

We are rebuilding an extremely narcissist experience.  That's all I'll say for tonight.

 

[DCCXXVII]

(((Petra and family)))

[MarylandQuitter]

Petra,

 

I'm sorry that you're left having to deal with the aftermath from such a horrible human being (that coach). 

 

When somebody is a Narcissist to the point that it's a disorder, we as their victims cannot help them for several reasons.  As you read through the article (I've done so many times to grasp it all!) you'll see just how ill some of these people truly are and they are incapable of ever seeing that they have a problem.  For those us who have been damaged by them, we cannot change them because we were/are their victims.  The deep psychological damage that has been done to those who "know them" for who they truly are puts us into another place to heal ourselves and those affected by these sick people.  That other place cannot ever be with or around that person.  Let their next supply and minions deal with them. 

 

To anybody reading this, thankfully those of us who got out did so with our lives.  Some don't.  This is serious stuff and not to be brushed off and I hope it's an eye opener for anybody who may be suffering and thinks the problem is them.  It truly is not about you.  It never was!  It never, ever was and there was nothing you could have done to change things.  Please take the time to read this article several times over the course of several days and keep at it until you understand this condition so you can heal and start living again.  It takes time but there is light, life and love afterwards.  Trust me as I see light for the first time in many, many years.  Stay well and put the focus on you, not them.  :)

 

"Cognitive dissonance is part of the disabling process of being a target/victim of a personality disordered Narcissist and doesn’t occur in healthy relationships. When there are two healthy individuals in a relationship there are good and bad parts as it concerns two separate personalities merging. But by far one or the other person doesn’t have a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality or a mask of sanity that hides a malicious, abusive and destructive person. In a healthy relationship, there is a certain level of transparency, so basically, what you see is what you get and it is pretty consistent, flaws and all. ALSO healthy relationships aren’t based on emotional/psychological abuse, control, domination and an insurmountable mountain of deliberate lies and manipulation.  Furthermore healthy relationships don’t end abruptly, as if they never even happened because normal people can’t detach so quickly from deeper relationships and JUMP right into another one UNLESS it was completely built on deception and basically one partner is a Narcissist!"

 

Click the link below to see the original article/paper that Petra is referring to.

http://www.quittrain.com/topic/5742-after-narcissistic-abuse-there-is-light-life-love/

[Ria]

(((Petra))) yes! of course! even one's own CHILD can display narcissistic tendencies toward their parent!!! It's awful, as they are your "flesh and blood"... but still, we MUST distance ourselves, for our own peace of mind.. it's a "heads they win, tales we lose" situation, either way!

 

My shrink told me years ago, there are probably THOUSANDS out there, but as a Narcissist, they DON'T talk to shrinks..(they believe they're superior) so their numbers are 'unknown'... even their "victims" aren't always free to leave/escape whatever!

They are refined at making the world think they are the SANE party and we are 'crazy'!

 

Anyway, not about to rant and vent here lol!!

 

... oooooh now my caps lock key is back to 'green light off' for lower case...?? what's causing that I wonder?

 

MQ is courageous!! :wub:  to post what he did!! xox

[buMbLeB]

I have to admit, I'm a bit mystified why this topic has suddenly sprung to life - is this personality type one that's often encountered? Is it a common experience of those on this board? Does it intersect with smoking in some way? While I'm pretty sure I've run across a few of these in my time, I don't believe I've had a meaningful personal relationship with one.

 

I suppose I should count myself lucky?

[Ria]

I have to admit, I'm a bit mystified why this topic has suddenly sprung to life - is this personality type one that's often encountered? Is it a common experience of those on this board? Does it intersect with smoking in some way? While I'm pretty sure I've run across a few of these in my time, I don't believe I've had a meaningful personal relationship with one.

 

I suppose I should count myself lucky?

 

 

?? mmm... kind of, Bumble... it's the "denial" and false "loving relationship" maybe??

 

As for not having a 'meaningful personal relationship with one'... maybe it's because YOU are too strong to be 'roped in'... so have 'escaped' a frightful waste of life!!

I believe only certain types are 'attracted' to these morons... (like myself) those desperately seeking recognition, acceptance, and even perhaps, being raised by one!?? Familiar behaviour and all that....no or low self-esteem and so on...

 

It's not a simple black and white, right and wrong thing... it's what we've been raised to expect I think..?

[DCCXXVII]

Without going into personal details of nearly 10 years pain at the hands of a narcissist... luckily I was able rebuild afterwards... with time and support

 

 

The above meme pretty much sums up my experience... the cycle nearly killed me because I believed in the sweet talking angel... it's all bullshit!

[dirty130]

Crazy I've never personally dealt with any people this bad. I've come across some personalities that sound like narcissism but due to lack of interest in them or their personal life I merely refer to them as assholes.

[MarylandQuitter]

I have to admit, I'm a bit mystified why this topic has suddenly sprung to life - is this personality type one that's often encountered? Is it a common experience of those on this board? Does it intersect with smoking in some way? While I'm pretty sure I've run across a few of these in my time, I don't believe I've had a meaningful personal relationship with one.

 

I suppose I should count myself lucky?

 

I brought this topic up because a lot of people suffer at the hands of these monsters and I came across this article as I was reading a blog about something entirely different and knew it was something that could help people understand what is/was happening to them.  Even if it could help one just person see and understand, I'd post it and I did.  It helped me so I knew it had the potential to reach others.

 

It's hard to say how common or uncommon interactions we've has with those who have NPD really are because you don't know it until it's too late.  But once you recognize certain traits, you won't fall for it again.  It has nothing to do with smoking.  Like Ria said, they don't seek help because they don't see anything wrong with them so their numbers are truly unknown.  Again, it's not the norm but they do walk among us like wolves dressed as sheep.

 

Not only are you lucky that you weren't a supply to a person like this, but you've likely seen red flags in people and chose to turn the other way.  Often times we don't know what the red flags are pointing to other than something that "just doesn't seem right" and we choose to go in another direction.  The love bombing phase is what sucks unsuspecting people in and from there, it begins.

[MarylandQuitter]

Petra,

 

My comment about not being able to help somebody with NPD referred to an adult/adult relationship, not a child/adult relationship.  If a child has NPD, of course stay the course because they can be helped!  But when it's an adult, like the coach, the victim cannot help him/her.  Just wanted to clarify because I don't know the details of your situation and don't want you to think that I would ever suggest giving up on a child because that is something that I could NEVER do!!  But an adult, that's different.  They need a highly skilled psychiatrist who has lots of experience with this sort of thing.   :)

 

Somebody affected by these people can without a doubt be helped and live a normal life and experience normal relationships.  No question about that.  As long as the truth is uncovered and the lies are exposed, healing can begin.

[Tink]

Edited: I'm not sure now I encountered narcissists or just complete a$$es without divulging more information, I seemed to have recovered at lot easier than most here, which puts me in doubt.

 

I'm very sorry that people are still affected by their experiences and if I can help please PM me x

[Ria]

Crazy I've never personally dealt with any people this bad. I've come across some personalities that sound like narcissism but due to lack of interest in them or their personal life I merely refer to them as assholes.

 

 

Just confirms my previous 'explanation', D130!!! Lucky you! and yes... they are AHs! ;)

[Ria]

Without going into personal details of nearly 10 years pain at the hands of a narcissist... luckily I was able rebuild afterwards... with time and support

 

 

The above meme pretty much sums up my experience... the cycle nearly killed me because I believed in the sweet talking angel... it's all bullshit!

 

 

Well, I must be more of an 'idealist' than I initially thought, cos it took me YEARS after I 'escaped' of intense therapy to know this!

I always thought "he couldn't help it"...Even NOW I find it painful to admit it was ALL a con!

[Ria]

I'm not sure that's always the case, Tracey... my ex had a wonderful childhood, his brothers and sisters are not affected.. (from what I saw and experienced)...

but who really knows? If they never admit they need 'help', thereby seeing a shrink, only the layperson can guess...

 

Also, MQ... I'm not sure there is ever "total recovery" for the 'victors'! (prefer that to victim)... I'm away now... but OMG! what I lost, can NEVER be found or replaced/mended... EVER :(

I'm also not sure if all children can be helped either... as, they have the most "magnetic" personalities and are SO easily 'liked'... it's almost as if they're in "training" and even confuse their parents!! By the time they're old enough for you to know there's something 'amiss', it's too late! They have their place in the world, with their own "sources"....

I tell you what though.. it takes 1 to know 1... and they DON'T get on!

[MarylandQuitter]

I'm not sure that's always the case, Tracey... my ex had a wonderful childhood, his brothers and sisters are not affected.. (from what I saw and experienced)...

but who really knows? If they never admit they need 'help', thereby seeing a shrink, only the layperson can guess...

 

Also, MQ... I'm not sure there is ever "total recovery" for the 'victors'! (prefer that to victim)... I'm away now... but OMG! what I lost, can NEVER be found or replaced/mended... EVER :(

I'm also not sure if all children can be helped either... as, they have the most "magnetic" personalities and are SO easily 'liked'... it's almost as if they're in "training" and even confuse their parents!! By the time they're old enough for you to know there's something 'amiss', it's too late! They have their place in the world, with their own "sources"....

I tell you what though.. it takes 1 to know 1... and they DON'T get on!

 

Time lost, energies spent etc. cannot be given back but the hurt can be mended and love found with someone who loves you the way you love, with all of your heart.  One thing is for sure, our lives will NEVER be the same again and that is a good thing in the sense that you sure can spot one a mile away and know to go in the other direction.

 

I posted another article by the same author and part of it talks about children who are raised by a parent with NPD.  In that case I agree that it would be very, very difficult to help that child because like the parent(s), they too will not realize they have such a serious and disastrous disorder.  A child that has been supply that was otherwise raised in a healthy environment I think can be helped.  It's a battle, I'm quite sure, but they can overcome it if the parents catch it, like Petra and her family did.  Her child will overcome this for several different reasons but the child who was raised by a NPD parent, not likely.

 

I'll go as far to say that an adult with true NPD is incapable of change; at least change to the point that we would ever allow them to be in our lives ever again.  People like this simply can't change and there are not enough years in a single life to be able to make these changes.  This is not just my opinion but also experts on the matter who have far more experience than I.  Sure, I suppose there are those rare individuals who can change, but I don't think one has ever been spotted.  The disorder is one like none other that I've studied.

 

It's scary when you realize how you were conned and what all you gave up for this person.  A normal, intelligent person can be conned and become supply and then tossed out with the garbage and then you're left wondering what the hell happened.  Once you realize what truly was happening (some never do!!!!!!!), it's downright scary that another human being is capable of this kind of behavior.  Reminds me of some characters in history that I care not to mention.

 

This is the just sad truth about these adults; change is not going to happen; they're just not capable of making these changes for many reasons.

 

"There is life, light and love" afterwards.  Sadly not for everybody because for some, they will never know what happened to them and why.  Awareness and education is key.  Then there are some who have this awareness and education who are still unable to fully recover.  The damage can be that deep!!!!  Like previously stated, this isn't some "theory", it's very real, very damaging and should not ever be brushed off. 

 

Ria, you're a wise and strong woman who lives in reality.  You're a blessing here and I bet you never imagined that when you joined a quit smoking support group that you'd be able to share your valuable insight into such a serious topic.  It's life-changing.  Here's the link to the other article in the same thread.

http://www.quittrain.com/topic/5742-after-narcissistic-abuse-there-is-light-life-love/?p=151396

[Ria]

"Ria, you're a wise and strong woman who lives in reality.  You're a blessing here and I bet you never imagined that when you joined a quit smoking support group that you'd be able to share your valuable insight into such a serious topic.  It's life-changing.  Here's the link to the other article in the same thread."

 

It's only because it's YOU that posted that, MQ, I feel 'honoured' by your comment... in fact I felt teary as I'm not used to compliments... well.. my sister is always telling me how wonderful I am, but SHE'S MY SISTER and sees me through 'rose coloured glasses'! lol!

 

I think that's what I meant in the previous post about never fully 'recovering'... it's not only the 'partner',, but my POAF was the LEARNING I had to go forward in life with what normal/acceptable/familiar treatment was!

When I met my 2nd (and consequently 3rd) husband, he was so 'familiar' that I was instantly drawn to him! and his hideous behaviour towards me...

 

I try very hard NOT to 'ramble' and 'vent' in these posts, but to "get on with life" and see some "light" every day... in myself, my gorgeous cat, my view etc...   but as for the "love"...? 

I think it's too late for me.. but that's OK! really!!!

 

Life is what it is.... we can only do so much and I've done all I can....I'm confident in that! ;) 

 

Oh yes!! Also,  MQ! I believe this DOES have bearing on the quit!!! VERY much so! accepting and knowing it's an illusion! NOT, as some other smart person here, (and I'm sorry, I've forgotten who) said, "to romance the cigi"!!!!

As D130 said... 'they're AHs" LOL! and so are SMOKES!!!  FALSE FRIENDS! 

[MarylandQuitter]

Yes!  Smokes are assholes!!!  lol

 

Actually, the word asshole used to describe these monsters is too nice of a word to be quite honest about it.  I like "emotional terrorist" better and that often times is used in clinical settings to describe what somebody with NPD does to their CHOSEN ones.  My gosh, it's just indescribable what some of these people are capable of!  No conscience, no empathy, no intimacy and no emotional attachments to anybody.  Scary.  Terrifying because it's people like this who are capable of the most atrocious crimes and even if most are not criminals, they certainly destroy other human beings from the inside and leave no fingerprints as they slide on over to the new supply which was carefully chosen long before their victims were tossed out with the trash.  

 

I'm still here and I'm smoke-free!!!  Woot-woot!!  :gamer1:

[Ria]

HEAR, HEAR!!!

 

and moi!

[MarylandQuitter]

 

[Ria]

By the way.....

 

INTELLIGENCE and EMOTION are two VERY difference measures!!!!

 

On an intellectual level, I KNEW there was something 'amiss'... we all do... but emotionally, (for whatever reason) in my case 'familiar/learned' behaviour, it was 'love'... and boy!!! was it love!!! from ME....

 

Stable/reliable/acceptable behaviour is when the intelligence and emotions are as close as possible!!!  some are better at it than others.. I've LEARNED how to lessen the gap...

 

Hope I've explained that well... don't think I have...

[babs609]

[Ria]

 

 

LOL! SO true!! lol... or 'crazy' or 'stupid' or 'argumentative' or....... or.... LOL!!!

 

 

What with being alone and and a NON smoker, how much greater can life get now??

Such a shame I wasted the majority of my life on both!!!... but what's done is done...

 

Today is the beginning of the 'rest of my life'...

[MarylandQuitter]

[Petra]

Tricky part is they lure you in first.  If you take the bait, they will befriend you while it suits their needs.  If you don't take the bait, they will do what they can to destroy you.  

[bakon]

I believe Evil actually exists in some people including these. We read BIble stories of demons and watch fictional movies of ghosts and gouls to lead us to believe people are inherintenly good..... But some are not.

 

A sign I look for now is long term relationships with friends or family.....If someone has no long term ties to anyone....you can bet in the future your relationship will be in that categorie too

Also if they appear out of the blue but seem to have "it all together" such as nice to be around and know what they are talking about and such. Say successful in several areas but no background to the location they now live....no ties to community but develope them instantly. So why don't they still live where they developed all this knowledge and why do they not come with any friends? Why is everyone from past "an asshole" or why were they a victim of bad people everywhere but are such a gem themselves.

Maybe I hold people at distance now but I also ask myself several questions before being personal with people.

How do I know you?

Have I ever been invited to your house? For dinner?

Do you know my nickname as a kid? Or how long have I known you?

Most important is what is your motivation to be my friend?

Evil exists. I married it once. When one walks away from everyone every few years, your on that future list of ex's. Whether friend or more...