Reluctantly :-/

[MLMR]

Good evening.
 

To be honest: I’m writing this in despair. I have been quitting on and off for more than five years now. I have been on this forum before - with succes. I had a diary as long as the Chinese Wall. 
 

During my last attempt, christmas eve uptill this morning, I thought I had it all straight: a family support app, three quit apps, celebrating every little milestone, aromatherapy sh*t to help me cope, water, a million times herbal tea a day, I read every book and listened to whatever addiction related podcast I came across and then the frigging Black dog hits. The first signs of depression, dissociation, suicidal thoughts. And I simply cant deal with it. Nog again. This monster stares me straight in my face and I am so, so scared of going back to that place again. And I KNOW that eventually quitting will aid greatly to better mental Health. Been there for five years long… smokefree, it was heaven. 
 

I dont know what to do anymore. How to make this work. It feels like Ive done whatever can be done and yet… I’m too friggin scared for depression. 
 

My plan is to continue tomorrow. Start over again and not waiting too long. I want this so badly and yet I am not sure what to do when I’m at that specific point. I do know that Im beyond shame.. maybe thats a good thing, in this case. 
 

Are there currently people here with mental health issues, who can tell me their secret with quitting? Some tips? I probably already tried everything already, but I must be open to more. So, there. 

 

Edited January 8 by MLMR

[DenaliBlues]

Hey @MLMR. Thanks so much for this post. It’s important to be real. Quitting is hard enough physiologically and cognitively, but I’m not sure we have enough honest talk about the emotional and mental health aspects of addiction and recovery - bleak bits and all. 

 

When I first quit I was most terrified of despair. Terrified that I would never be happy or whole without smoking. I was wrong. That was not an accurate assessment of my mental health - it was addict mind panicking about losing control. Those moments that feel like you MUST smoke (or that there is nothing to lose) cannot actually be trusted. In fact, I think nicotine makes depression worse…

 

I won’t lie - it was gnarly. I was messy a lot. But it did not destroy me. In fact, it fortified me… to be free of the shame, the shackles of compulsion.

 

My advice for what it’s worth: get a good therapist and try again. You belong here, my dear.

Edited January 8 by DenaliBlues

[Paul723]

My best advice, and it may not apply to you, would be to live for life, not be lived by life.  Engage yourself in your life, both good and bad.  Quitting is just one aspect and there are many positives you can make yourself connect with (as you know!).  The dark place will be there weather you smoke or not; not smoking is not what takes you there.  Avoiding depression take a conscious and continuous effort just like quitting smoking.  Denali has given you excellent advice.

[Christian99]

Hi MLMR--

 

I, too, struggled with serial failed quits, and I know how discouraging it feels.  Realizing that my approach wasn't working, I decided to take a more radical approach:  instead of "just" quitting, I decided to situate quitting in the larger project of GETTING HEALTHY.  This included significant changes to my diet and a really serious fitness program, which gave me lots of positive, proactive things to think and learn about instead of obsessing over the thing I was ostensibly denying myself.  In addition, I hoped that these new activities would accelerate the process of seeing myself as a non-smoker, creating another line of defense during those inevitable moments of vulnerability.  While this new approach certainly didn't make quitting easy, it made it possible for me; I'm forever grateful that I tried it.  It's probably true that I went a little overboard with the diet and exercise during that first year, but many years later I'm still convinced that this was the way it needed to be for me.   

 

My point really isn't to encourage you to adopt my method (though it's worth thinking about); instead, I'm sharing it as an example of doing something(s) different.  What would a different set of actions look like for you?  Shifting the emphasis to practice--and pretty radical practice at that--as opposed to how I was thinking about cigarettes really helped me. 

 

We know you can do it!

 

Christian99

23+ Years Quit     

[intoxicated yoda]

hey MLMR...i really don't know if anything i'm about to write here will be relevant to your situation or not but take it for what it's worth.  not long ago I had some issues that vexed me greatly.  i was at the point i was about to say screw it and go get a carton of smokes and try to make up for lost time.  my world was crashing down around me and i was powerless to stop it.  doing nothing was torture but doing anything only made things exponentially worse.  no where to run and no where to hide.  so in desperation i decided to try gratitude and prayer.  at the time i couldn't think of much to be grateful for because all i could see was the disaster in front of me so i decided i would be grateful for that.  sounds stupid i know, to be grateful for the circumstances that i'm hoping the gratitude will abate but i never claimed to be an intellect.  Then I branched out and started being grateful for my next breath, the sunshine, the rain, the water i was drinking.  then i called out to my Creator and thanked it for watching out for me and those i cherish.  I wasn't perfect.  I had days I wouldn't think about gratitude and sometimes i'd even shake a fist at that Creator.  But as the days and weeks went on I came into some wisdom and that's what changed the game and here it is.  Your thoughts are not yours.  none of them.  we think they are cause it seems like we can control them but we can't.  once you understand that concept any guilt you have crushing you should start to fade.  now, we do have freewill in that we can give power to those thoughts through our attention and our actions or we can ignore them.  this is what connects or disconnects those thoughts to our emotions.  If you've been giving power to the wrong thoughts  the disconnection process will be unpleasant.  That process is simple but not easy.  you must not act on the thoughts that hurt you and you must act on the thoughts that lift you up.  use your discernment.  good judgement comes from wisdom.  wisdom comes from bad judgement.  pray and be grateful.  smile at your Creator and it will smile back.  put this to the test.  you don't need to join any religion or cult and no special postures or hand signs are necessary.  the gratitude and prayers you need are already inside you.  just give them some attention and let them stir your emotions and keep it between you and whatever power you choose to honor.  i hope this will be of some help to you.

[MLMR]

First off, thanks for taking the time and making such effort to respond. It means a lot to me, more than I can find the words for. English is not my language and sometimes I’m having a hard time to find the words and that makes me embarassed. Sorry in advance if I say strange things. 
 

@DenaliBlues thanks so much for your answer. It brought me to tears yesterday evening, because what you said about being real about the proces meant a lot to me. My fear of depression is a realistic one: ive been there too often. It can be a litteral matter of life and death when that happens. Nicotine does make depression worse. Thanks for saying I belong. That is the essence of where things go wrong in my head/heart.

 

@Paul723 avoiding depression is really only partially ‘choice’. I agree with you that to some extend it is a matter of doing things that are beneficial (sports, eating healthy, etc etc. My toolkit is there). But: It would be too simple to state that it is ultimately up to me wether I get depressed or not. It just doesnt work like that and it implies a sense of ‘its your own fault’.. maybe Im not totally getting your response, would you care to explain then?
 

@Christian99 Your approach is definitely worth concidering. I think I need to add two or three things to my weekly schedule, as to enrich my life. To shift my focus from quitting, to adding good stuff. I am seeing a friend tomorrow morning, will ask her to think with me in that. 
 

@intoxicated yoda your words are of help. I will read them again at some point. 

Edited January 9 by MLMR

[d2e8b8]

Hey MLMR, 

 

SOS - I would suggest using it a lot.

 

If there’s someone you can call, that may help also.

 

Sending positive energy your way!

[MLMR]

3…2…1….  Go

[Doreensfree]

Go Go… you can do it 

Stay close … Read all the information and watch Joel’s videos they all will help

[Genecanuck]

Hello @MLMR...

 

I do not suffer from clinical depression but I know a thing or two about situational depression.  The biggest trigger I believe I have left in my practice to be a smoke free human being is thinking often that smoking can help me when I feel anger or depression. A death in the family or feeling really angry or under pressure always sends my mind racing, thinking that a cigeratte will somehow comfort me or make me feel better.

 

One of the things that helped me is to deeply re-examine my belief system about smoking. As Dan1 says below in his post, " [a] cigarette is not capable of making us think, feel, or experience a single thing, other than a bit of nausea and a somewhat elevated heartbeat". 

 

I am still working  on ignoring that background stinking thinking noice that pops up once in a while in my head that smoking can help me feel better when I feel depressed. As Dan1 says, that "wanna smoke... fades as the belief that 'smoking helps' fades."

 

The fact that you are still coming here @MLMR says that your desire to to be a non smoker is much stronger than your belief that smoking can do anything to help you.  You just have to give yourself more time to allow that false belief that smoking can help to fade into the background.

 

Keep coming here and keep our quit.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Gene

 

 

Dan1: 2007-03-17 on Quitnet

 

Why is this so hard?

 

It's a question worth asking, and I'm convinced that the usual answers aren't good enough. After all, continuing to smoke is easy - just ask anyone here. And being free of smoking is even easier - just ask anyone who's made it, or anyone who's never smoked, or simply consult your own common sense. So why is the path from 'easy' to 'easier' so hard?

 

Maybe you're taking the wrong path. And no, I'm not engaging in the senseless debate about Cold Turkey vs meds. That has an answer as individual as your personality. How you answer that question is in no way related to how someone else did or should answer it.

 

No, the wrong path is in thinking of this as a battle of will. It simply is not, and making it seem like one is the only thing that makes this difficult. “Will” can only do one thing: follow your own pre-existing values. You can use it to smoke or to not smoke with equal ease. The thing that you can't do for long is turn it against you - to make yourself act against your own self interests. 

 

If you struggle, there is one simple reason: You believe that smoking provides you with something you want or need - in short, you value smoking. When you struggle to not smoke, all you are doing is asking your will to act against your values. That is a source of tremendous stress and anxiety, and those in turn cause all of the 'quit symptoms' that make this so hellish.

 

Every failed quit is simply willpower finding it's triumph - by re-aligning your actions to your values. In this state of affairs, smoking is a victory of the will, not a failure, No wonder we find that it feels so good.

 

But it doesn't have to be this way. Instead of fighting against the thought to smoke, get to know it a little. Find out where it came from, what it's real purpose is. Your body and brain don't want to smoke - but they may desire some change that you incorrectly believe smoking can give.

 

A cigarette is not capable of making us think, feel, or experience a single thing, other than a bit of nausea and a somewhat elevated heartbeat. It can't make us happy, contented, or relaxed. All these other things (and a thousand others) are strictly a question of the interpretation of that otherwise meaningless event. But by believing the myth that cigarettes have the power to change our thoughts, fears, wishes, or circumstances, we run from something that we needn't fear, and strengthen the very notions that have us reaching again and again for that little white tube of death.

 

21 months ago, I quit smoking with the assumption that I would smoke again. It was not that I wanted to, planned to, or thought I would need to. Instead, it was a confidence in my ability to be stupid. I simply assumed that sooner or later I would screw up. 

 

This turned out to be a great benefit. Instead of growing tense over an impossibly high-seeming perfection, I could instead think about how to prevent the inevitable stumble from turning into a fall. And on that path I found a signpost to freedom: That the "stumble" wasn't in actually smoking, but in thinking positively about smoking. The "fall" wasn't smoking the pack, not even taking a puff. The "fall" was in holding on to incorrect values. Smoking was simply the most obvious external sign that my beliefs were screwed up. At that point, it could hardly matter if I smoked or not - fighting was in itself a failure.

 

That might sound like I'm setting the bar even higher than not smoking - that you're somehow not allowed to even think of smoking. But that's exactly wrong. I'm inviting you instead to think deeply about smoking, about what it means to you, about why you believe these things that the vast majority of the world can't even understand. Each thought of smoking becomes an opportunity to understand how and where your beliefs and values are wrong, and to realign them to your greater truth - that you do not want to smoke. That's why you started this journey, isn't it?

 

Now, changing beliefs isn't easy, but it's not hard, either. Mostly, it just takes time. And you have plenty of time. Instead of spending time fighting with yourself, spend it understanding that the very thing you are fighting over is a mistake, an error. Suddenly, the fight is gone. 

 

Yes, it's still annoying listening to that endless 'wanna smoke?' mental drumbeat. But that fades as the belief that 'smoking helps' fades. And yes, you will from time to time experience symptoms. But as long as you recognize that quitting didn't cause them (at least, not in the sense of 'needing' nicotine) and that smoking has no way to help them (that power resides only in you, and always did), they will pass, and there will be no struggle. 

 

Yes, it can be hard. But it doesn't have to be. If you find too much 'hard' between 'easy' and 'easier', check your map. Either you've made a wrong turn, or you're using the wrong map.

 

Dan. 640 days (21 months) smoke free.

12798 cigarettes not smoked. 
$2,240.00 and 3 months, 7 days, 18 hours of your life saved. 

"Life is either a great adventure, or it is nothing."

Edited 11 hours ago by Genecanuck

[DenaliBlues]

How’s it going @MLMR? So glad that you have returned here! Drop us a note to let us know how you are doing with your quit.