Netflix series pro smoking

[MLMR]

No, no.... no! 

 

Was just binging 'Dead to me', netflix series. So far, so good. Ok for a saturday evening on the couch, tea, beers and crochet. Right in the middle of the 4th episode, clues come together, secrets are out in the open, two girl friends having dinner and wine and the dirt is literally on the dinner table. Tears, anger, some jealous car scratching and then.... one of  'm buys cigarettes and the other one says she loves her for it...! And ofcourse they light up and immediately calm down and have a reasonable conversation... oh right. 

 

I am in shock! This is soooo Marlboro man old fashion.. how can they still do it like that? I thought we were past that? Apparantly NOT. 

 

The only nice thing about it... i felt true repulsion. Really, what a cheap move. 

 

-Edit- ah I was too quick. She cant get it lit! Well. What about that. Weird. 

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by MLMR

[Lilly]

I suppose the reality of life is that millions of people still smoke. I think by removing smoking/drinking/drugs it would also remove that reality of life. 

 

We are quitters so we view that scene differently to a lot of other people. Never smokers and smokers probably never even viewed it the way you did - in fact they probably never thought about it at all.  

 

I once blew a quit because someone was smoking in a programme. How pathetic is that lol. 

 

Hope things are ok with you.  Sounds like a perfect evening to me.  Only thing I would add is some cheese and onion crisps

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Lilly

[Wayne045]

I think it's a fictional TV show for made for you entertainment....or not.

 

If that bothers you definitely don't watch Mad Men.

 

 

[Reciprocity]

The part I find disturbing is that hey are promoting the lie we all buy into, that smoking calms you in a tense situation. This is the major stumbling block for many people quitting. Not understanding the difference between nicotine addiction stress and life stress. Cigarettes only solve one kind of stress and it's NOT life stress!

[Boo]

1 hour ago, reciprocity said:

The part I find disturbing is that hey are promoting the lie we all buy into, that smoking calms you in a tense situation. 

 

The lie that won't die.

 

My grandfather started smoking after he joined the service in World War II.  The soldiers and sailors were issued cigarettes by the Unites States Navy under the guise of smoking as a means of calming the nerves and building bravery.

 

A lie agreed upon is still a lie.

[Lilly]

5 minutes ago, Boo said:

 

The lie that won't die.

 

My grandfather started smoking after he joined the service in World War II.  The soldiers and sailors were issued cigarettes by the Unites States Navy under the guise of smoking as a means of calming the nerves and building bravery.

 

A lie agreed upon is still a lie.

 

Did they know it was a lie at that time?

[Boo]

23 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Did they know it was a lie at that time?

 

Yes.

 

The propaganda put forth by big tobacco and tacitly endorsed by the federal government and all of the agencies that fall under its domain had been thoroughly discredited by independent research.  Independent research that was silenced and destroyed by the powers that be at the time.

 

Silencing the opposition is not the same as winning the argument.

[Reciprocity]

No they kids who fought didn't because even doctors smoked back then. The issuing of cigs during wartime was a major boost to Big Tobacco. I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't behind that whole scheme. Get those young recruits hooked and we'll have 'em for life (even if it is a shortened one)  

Edited May 18, 2019 by reciprocity

[Boo]

10 minutes ago, reciprocity said:

The issuing of cigs during wartime was a major boost to Big Tobacco. I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't behind that whole scheme. 

 

Big tobacco was such a powerful lobby at the time, the lines between where the tobacco lobby ended and the regulatory arm began got blurry to the point of being damn near non-existent.

 

Throw enough money at politicians and you will amass quite a collection of useful idiots.

 

15 minutes ago, reciprocity said:

Get those young recruits hooked and we'll have 'em for life (even if it is a shortened one)  

 

My grandfather survived some fierce battles in the Pacific Theater during the war.  It was the government issued cigarettes that killed him in the end. 

[Lilly]

Everything I've read says the health risks were highlighted in the fifties which is obviously after the war so I'm still confused. 

 

I have family who fought in both wars and none of them smoke thankfully. Not everyone took it up despite getting them free. 

 

Smoking kills but so did the wars they were in. Neither smoking or dying fighting should have been allowed. 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Lilly

[Reciprocity]

 

8 hours ago, Lilly said:

Everything I've read says the health risks were highlighted in the fifties which is obviously after the war so I'm still confused. 

 

I have family who fought in both wars and none of them smoke thankfully. Not everyone took it up despite getting them free. 

 

Smoking kills but so did the wars they were in. Neither smoking or dying fighting should have been allowed. 

I'm guessing there were thousands upon thousands of young men would were introduced to smoking because of the free cigs they got in the armed forces during that time and, many would have continued smoking on their own after they got back. Producers of cigarettes may have added more and more dangerous ingredients in the 50's to keep people hooked and to increase their market share over other producers. Big Tobacco was a pretty dirty business back then - still is of course. Now it's just protecting their empire against government regulation and common sense!

[Lilly]

Thanks Reci - that makes perfect sense. 

[Boo]

15 hours ago, Lilly said:

Everything I've read says the health risks were highlighted in the fifties which is obviously after the war so I'm still confused. 

 

What happened in the 1950s is that the evidence of the dangers of smoking was mounting and made it impossible for the tobacco industry to silence all dissent.  This led to Reader's Digest publishing "Cancer by the Carton" in 1952.  The British Journal of Medicine published two articles on the link between cigarettes and cancer around the same time.  And Hammond and Horn started the "Cohort Study" in 1952 and published the results in 1955.

 

The scientific research was proving links well before 1950 though.  Herman Rottman was researching links between smoking and illness in 1898.  The Adler Study built on and improved Rottman's work in 1912.  Franz Herman Muller conducted a comprehensive study on the links between smoking and cancer in the 1930s.  These studies were known of outside of Germany but not allowed to gain any real traction.

 

6 hours ago, reciprocity said:

Producers of cigarettes may have added more and more dangerous ingredients in the 50's to keep people hooked and to increase their market share over other producers. 

 

They did.  The 1950s was when the tobacco companies really started to weaponize their product.  They were perfecting their mass production capabilities while simultaneously continuing to alter cigarettes to make them more and more addictive.

 

This was also when big tobacco really began to grease the wheels on their propaganda machine.  In 1954 the tobacco companies published "A Frank Statement to Cigarette Smokers" in 423 newspapers across America reaching over 40 million readers.  The Frank Statement produced such gems as: "the statistics purporting to link cigarette smoking with the disease could apply with equal force to any of many other aspects of modern life."  And this one: "We believe the products we make are not injurious to health."  And more: "For more than 300 years tobacco has given solace, relaxation and enjoyment to mankind.  At one time or another during those years critics have held it responsible for every disease of the human body.  One by one these charges have been abandoned for a lack of evidence."

 

Complete bullshit.  Also arguably the single most effective piece of corporate propaganda ever produced.

 

6 hours ago, reciprocity said:

Big Tobacco was a pretty dirty business back then - still is of course. Now it's just protecting their empire against government regulation and common sense!

 

They didn't close up shop, they just moved on to new frontiers.  China has become the market for big tobacco.  The number of smokers has been steadily increasing for over a decade in China.  Big tobacco is also flooding developing nations with cheap cigarettes with higher nicotine content than those sold in America.  A market like Indonesia is practically the wild west for the tobacco companies.  They're able to sell cigarettes to prepubescent children and have them hooked by the time they are teenagers.

[Reciprocity]

Yeah - I've seem footage of kids like 6 or 7 puffing away in Indonesia. Disgusting! I went to Europe a few years ago and was shocked at how many smokers there still were (and I was a smoker then too). Also, here in Canada, the Province of Quebec is very bad for smoking. Up until a year ago you could still get smoking rooms in some hotels. A lot of French Canadians smoke like crazy. One of their own Provincial party leaders was a chain smoker. Never saw him without a smoke in his mouth. Oh .... guess what? He's dead now  

Edited May 19, 2019 by reciprocity

[Lilly]

@reciprocity there was a video that went viral of a four year old and then a 3 year old smoking (both from Indonesia).

 

Teenagers make their own choices but it broke my heart to see those babies. 

 

[JimHannoonen]

Great show, btw. Loveed it!

 

That said, there are millions of people that genuinely enjoy smoking. I mean, we all did at some point, right?

 

 

[Boo]

1 hour ago, JimHannoonen said:

That said, there are millions of people that genuinely enjoy smoking. I mean, we all did at some point, right?

 

I can only speak for myself, but I don't know that I ever genuinely enjoyed smoking.  I may have lied about enjoying smoking, but that was just an attempt to justify my addiction.

 

I don't spend a lot of time thinking about quitting things that I genuinely enjoy.

[Aine]

My wee little nicotine receptors were always deeply gratified when the first hit of nicotine hit my lungs. Same thing as "enjoyed"? Dunno.

Quote

"I don't spend a lot of time thinking about quitting things that I genuinely enjoy. "

 

Love this.

[Lilly]

22 hours ago, Ankush said:

After X, Y - Yippee

B - Bore

 

11 hours ago, Boo said:

 

I don't spend a lot of time thinking about quitting things that I genuinely enjoy.

 

People can get addicted to healthy things in life too. 

 

Got to be honest and say I don't buy into a lot of the psychology of smoking. I enjoyed smoking but saying that out loud doesn't mean I'm deluded, uneducated on smoking or I can't quit. 

 

Allen Carr and Joel made the psychology of addiction fashionable. People managed to quit for years without feeling they ever had to succumb to the "you don't enjoy it - you're just satisfying your withdrawal" mentality. 

 

I love butter and eat loads of it on fresh bread. I enjoy it but that doesn't mean it's not bad for me. Heart attacks are just as likely from a bad fatty diet as they are from smoking. So yes I enjoyed smoking as much as I do my bread and really thick butter, fried food, stodgy puddings and alcohol. So personally I definitely think a lot about quitting all the things I enjoy

 

 

[Boo]

10 hours ago, Lilly said:

Got to be honest and say I don't buy into a lot of the psychology of smoking. I enjoyed smoking but saying that out loud doesn't mean I'm deluded, uneducated on smoking or I can't quit. 

 

Allen Carr and Joel made the psychology of addiction fashionable. 

 

Joel Spitzer and Allen Carr are not pop psychologists.  They shined a light on smoking, what it truly is and what it isn't, and forever altered the way many of us smokers viewed our addiction.  The truth resonates.

 

10 hours ago, Lilly said:

People managed to quit for years without feeling they ever had to succumb to the "you don't enjoy it - you're just satisfying your withdrawal" mentality. 

 

Yes, the willpower quit was the norm for many years. 

 

And for many years moving things around was limited by how far you could walk and how much you could carry on your back.  Then the wheel was invented.

 

Much of the history of human progress has been motivated by finding a better way to do things.

[Lilly]

10 hours ago, Boo said:

 

Joel Spitzer and Allen Carr are not pop psychologists.  They shined a light on smoking, what it truly is and what it isn't, and forever altered the way many of us smokers viewed our addiction.  The truth resonates.

 

 

Yes, the willpower quit was the norm for many years. 

 

And for many years moving things around was limited by how far you could walk and how much you could carry on your back.  Then the wheel was invented.

 

Much of the history of human progress has been motivated by finding a better way to do things.

 

Each to their own