Study finds association between vaping and cardiovascular problems

[Icanhike]

I always had a glamorous vision of Australians as rebels...in my mind, you're the bad-asses of the world, lol.   I love what Australia did with cigarette packaging!  

[Icanhike]

And also, I think it's great any time nicotine is outlawed.  

[Lilly]

53 minutes ago, notsmokinjo said:

It is illegal to sell vaping products in Australia that contain nicotine. There is no support of them by anyone other than big tobacco. In some states it  is even illegal to sell vaping products period. Individuals can buy vaping fluid containing nicotine from overseas but can only bring in a 2 month supply for a single individual. 

 

I sometimes wonder if the reason we have so many nanny state laws is because we started as a prison and it's just ingrained to walk the line.

 

I don't know how true it is but I have read that Australia is one of the highest users of cannabis. 

 

I also read that cannabis is widely used in America.

 

It amazes me that countries find cannabis more acceptable than e-cigarettes

 

I've never tried either and don't intend to but do wonder how the world would react if we used the same rules for drugs and especially alcohol.

 

 

[notsmokinjo]

Cannabis is smoked here but not legally... Well that's not quite true...in one state it's ok to grow a plant for personal use...and medicinal marijuana is 'available' but you basically have to be in end stage cancer...at least where I am. .... The climate here is good for growing it, you don't even need to rig up a hydroponic set up in an old wardrobe to get decent buds...

[Whispers]

14 hours ago, Lilly said:

 

I don't know how true it is but I have read that Australia is one of the highest users of cannabis. 

 

I also read that cannabis is widely used in America.

 

It amazes me that countries find cannabis more acceptable than e-cigarettes

 

I've never tried either and don't intend to but do wonder how the world would react if we used the same rules for drugs and especially alcohol.

 

 

cannabis (pot) used for a long time here, states are making it legal and also medical reasons for some. As far as the vaping/ e-cigg its been out here for a while, the debates i see in this thread we had on social media about 5 years back when it was very big. People would open up vape stores and all the news was it was safe, cool etc. I read the news and why other Govt are lying to the people with its safe i have no answer for, but out here it was safe and year by year the news changed. If vaping or E-cigg is something a smoker wants to use its your/their choice . Around 2011-2012 vaping was trending and also hookah lounge started to become popular

[Whispers]

This claims safe https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/cancer-controversies/does-vaping-cause-popcorn-lung

 

 

This claims not safe

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/318260.php

 

Wet Lung  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/05/21/teen-gets-wet-lung-after-vaping-three-weeks/630047002/

 

 

CDC   https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/index.htm

 

[Lilly]

This is why I say it is different here. 

 

Because we are regulated diacetyl isn't even allowed. 

[Whispers]

Both claim different, its fairly new that we find out as it happens. They just have to "sell it" (sales pitch). I have friends that love to vape, they claim they quit smoking now vape. They didnt quit nicotine to me, they took the easy way. I tried to share with them how great it is after, it sucks for a while early in but that goes away after you quit cold turkey.Your govt is definitely pushing the vape/e-cigg 

[Icanhike]

Thanks for making a point, Lilly, that doesn't get much attention.  The United States produces, prescribes, abuses and consumes drugs to an extreme.  And I always thought it was funny that addiction to cigarettes is the only addiction that's aggressively targeted in my country.  Or at least, targeted in an obvious and overt manner. 

[Lilly]

4 hours ago, Whispers said:

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Icanhike said:

 

 

Sorry, not sure what I did there 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Lilly

[Icanhike]

You mentioned that cannabis is more accepted than e-cigs.  And I've been noticing for a long time that my society seems to have a bigger problem with cigarettes than with drug abuse in general.  And I'm surprised by that - I'd think meth and heroin would be targeted right along with tobacco.

[notsmokinjo]

Its a different battle. One is a legally sanctioned product that sees people making millions (legally) selling something they know kills people. The other products are illegal the battle against them is different and has to be fought differently.

 

Honest opinion... the tobacco industry is the horse that bolted, so governments bring in new regulations and taxing to hopefully decrease the users but they can't really make it illegal. E-cigs are trying to get their foot in the door to replace tobacco so if the government says NOPE from the start they can contain the impact to a certain degree. Illegals, are illegal....the are multiple levels of government from social services to the cops to legilsators who dedicate their lives to the drug problem... its not that one is being given more focus than the other... its just that they are trying to limit the impact of the new kid on the block.... make it illegal from the get go then you don't have the runaway train that is tobacco.

[Lilly]

30 minutes ago, Icanhike said:

You mentioned that cannabis is more accepted than e-cigs.  And I've been noticing for a long time that my society seems to have a bigger problem with cigarettes than with drug abuse in general.  And I'm surprised by that - I'd think meth and heroin would be targeted right along with tobacco.

 

Totally agree. At least with cigarettes you only kill yourself. The amount of times I hear stories of people being murdered while the person was high on drugs and alcohol angers me. 

[notsmokinjo]

36 minutes ago, Lilly said:

 

At least with cigarettes you only kill yourself.

 

Sorry but not true, My aunty never smoked a day in her life but she died from lung cancer caused by my uncles smoking.  2nd hand smoke is just as deadly.

 

There are plenty of alcoholics and junkies that don't kill or hurt anyone else for their addiction. But you can not compare public sentiment to cigarettes, illegal drugs and e-cigs.... they are not the same things.

 

Tobacco Products - Are a legal industry that were touted as safe, and good for you until evidence proved without a shadow of a doubt that they are not. This proof took decades to be accepted. These deadly products, just like alcohol, are legal. The governments of the world make money from these. The tobacco and alcohol industries make money from these. It is legal to buy, sell and use these. This is an established problem that is being chipped away at as possible but is completely legal so not all that much that can be done.

 

Illegal Drugs - are just that illegal, there are laws that try to prevent there sale, use, etc, etc, etc..... the things is, and lets be honest, they make you feel pretty damn good while you have them onboard.... so just like alcohol, just like tobacco and nicotine, there are always going to be people who want what they get from them... so until you kill the demand you will never win the war on drugs... but the battle against illegals is not comparable to the battle against legal substances of abuse.

 

E-cigs - are relatively new on the block and the reality is they are an unknown entity. They are an entry level product, considering the horror that those nice, safe, healthy cigarettes became why wouldn't people be more wary, critical and against the new nicotine delivery system? Why wouldn't governments want to stop and or regulate something before it becomes the unstoppable juggernaut that big tobacco now is. It is easier to stop something before it gets traction..... from what I read from multiple sources they are not regulated in the US... kids can buy this shit.... kids are getting addicted to this and you know who is rubbing there hands together with glee??.... big frickin tobacco.... I'm frickin proud I live in a country where the government said no... where they are trying to minimise and regulate it.... but that said you can not compare the products because they are completely different beasts.

 

[Lilly]

When I said with cigarettes you only kill yourself, I meant you don't have 40 cigarettes one night and go and murder someone. 

[Icanhike]

One can't compare tragedy and misery...it's just heartbreaking what happened to your auntie.  My son got hooked on painkillers, which were shared with him by his supervisor at work, who later shared heroin with him.  That was 14 years ago, and my family has not begun to recover.  The destruction of heroin is impossible to describe, it ripples outwards and after destroying a family it fucks up a neighborhood then a community.  My son's drug problem cost about 60K, we lost jobs and we lost friends and we lost our good reputations, just because we were associated with a junkie.  The stress day in and day out was a living hell.  We lost, and kept on losing, and we still feel hijacked by drugs.  Anyway, in America, "we mustn't stigmatize drug addiction."   We can  demonize people who are hooked on cigarettes, but we can't "stigmatize drug addiction."    It's funny that the groups saying we can't stigmatize addiction happen to be the manufacturers of methadone and suboxone, which are used to "treat" heroin addiction.  My son tried all that stuff, we've been through it all, except he didn't actually die.  Not yet, anyway.  But anyway, never underestimate the horrors of drugs, whether the drug's an upper or a downer.  

[notsmokinjo]

Never have nor never will underestimate the ripples or damage, trauma and horror caused by illegal drug use. Did you know in Australia you can get a disability pension for being an alcoholic or a heroin junky? but try and get on for ptsd or bipolar.... much harder to achieve... You are new so you don't have my back story but I am an alcoholic and always will be I just choose to be sober.. just the same as I don't do uppers anymore but there was a time when I did, so I am a junky too and I always will be, I just choose to be sober.

 

I'm just saying they can't be compared. So the politically correct camp has us following the line that addicts are victims and its an illness.... and big pharma support this because there is money in it for them...I think part of the hate shaming of smokers is the old shame technique.... make a smoker feel bad, and ostracized and inferior and it may motivate them to quit... that's all... basically every human wants to fit in, and be accepted and part of the crowd.... so take that away and maybe that will make them want to quit. Using illegal drugs is already turning your back on society to do it... so the shame technique does not work.

 

@Icanhike thank you so much for sharing your story. I am sorry you have had to and are still living the horror of having an addicted son. He is lucky to have you still in his camp.

[Whispers]

@Icanhike H, Crack, Meth, Coke are all drugs and they have groups that are very good discussing this. I can share a link, they even have gambling and sexual abuse.

 

 

  Tobacco companies view cigarettes only as a delivery device for nicotine, E-Cigg and Vape is another device to deliver the nicotine(long story short) . I'm curious why the UK Govt is pushing it on the people because if it is healthy (which i highly doubt) i will start a business with one of you over there. You ship them here and i'll sell the healthy e-cigg and we split the $

[Whispers]

Its good and deeper, i have friends who took the path to heavy drugs.

 

 

[Lilly]

1 hour ago, Whispers said:

@Icanhike H, Crack, Meth, Coke are all drugs and they have groups that are very good discussing this. I can share a link, they even have gambling and sexual abuse.

 

 

  Tobacco companies view cigarettes only as a delivery device for nicotine, E-Cigg and Vape is another device to deliver the nicotine(long story short) . I'm curious why the UK Govt is pushing it on the people because if it is healthy (which i highly doubt) i will start a business with one of you over there. You ship them here and i'll sell the healthy e-cigg and we split the $

 

Nobody said it's healthy. 

[Whispers]

4 minutes ago, Lilly said:

 

Nobody said it's healthy. 

Safe/healthy . The implication of safe to some would mean healthy (not harmful/free from disease )

[Lilly]

8 hours ago, Icanhike said:

One can't compare tragedy and misery...it's just heartbreaking what happened to your auntie.  My son got hooked on painkillers, which were shared with him by his supervisor at work, who later shared heroin with him.  That was 14 years ago, and my family has not begun to recover.  The destruction of heroin is impossible to describe, it ripples outwards and after destroying a family it fucks up a neighborhood then a community.  My son's drug problem cost about 60K, we lost jobs and we lost friends and we lost our good reputations, just because we were associated with a junkie.  The stress day in and day out was a living hell.  We lost, and kept on losing, and we still feel hijacked by drugs.  Anyway, in America, "we mustn't stigmatize drug addiction."   We can  demonize people who are hooked on cigarettes, but we can't "stigmatize drug addiction."    It's funny that the groups saying we can't stigmatize addiction happen to be the manufacturers of methadone and suboxone, which are used to "treat" heroin addiction.  My son tried all that stuff, we've been through it all, except he didn't actually die.  Not yet, anyway.  But anyway, never underestimate the horrors of drugs, whether the drug's an upper or a downer.  

 

This is pretty much why I get so heated about drugs taking second place to cigarettes

 

I'm not even going to pretend I understand what you have been through as a family. One of my children dabbled with drugs for many years but thankfully never heroin. 

 

I pray that one day you all find peace and your son finds his way back x x

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Whispers]

http://fortune.com/2019/03/08/tobacco-smoking-vaping-electronic-cigarettes-heart-attack-disease-depression/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=fortunemagazine&utm_medium

 

 

 

[Icanhike]

I don't know how to do the quote thing, but I want to say to Notsmokinjo, thank you for sharing.  I always feel better when I find out another person prevailed.  And when I got off cigarettes, I found out just how much of an addict I happen to be...it was a stunning revelation.  I think a huge chunk of humanity are addicts.  But anyway, I really appreciate hearing your hard-earned wisdom, it means a lot to me.  And I'm so glad you're here!!!!!!!!!!!  I love all of you, you're adding even more magic to the happiness of quitting!!!

[Whispers]

I tried to bump this.. He covered a lot