Quit By Vaping?

[JB 883]

1 hour ago, WeegieWoman said:

I didn't realise they are sold to kids, that is wrong. They are, i thought, 'behind the counter' so i assumed there was some age limit.

 

 

Vape is not legal to sell to people under 18 in the USA.

However, it is partially marketed towards kids with it's candy flavors.

With marketing, even if they are not selling directly to a demograph, companies still have ways of "reaching" them.

As we know, age limits have only so much impedance on kid's ability to get things (like nicotine products). When they could actually advertise cigarettes, they did the same thing.

 

The good news I suppose though - ALREADY there is evidence of society cracking down on vape.

 

Some people think it smells good. To me it is like smelling antifreeze - yeah the scent is nice but you then realize it is the smell of poison.

[Sslip]

 

I'll start off by declaring interest here. I have vaped heavily previously and while I no longer vape a number of my family still do so. I certainly hope vaping is the lesser of two evils and more qualified people than me seem to think that it is. During my annual physical a couple of years ago, the doctor recommended that I switch to vaping if I was not prepared to give up smoking.

 

Terminology is probably where we should start in framing the discussion. A little while back Public Health England endorsed a statistic that assessed vaping as being 95% less hazardous than smoking. Now it is important to look at the wording there. I don't like the way people actually throw around the word safe or safer in relation to vaping. We should be talking about how hazardous it is and it falls short of abstinence.

 

And here we also get onto the fact that there is more than one way to vape with a myriad of different devices.  Certainly the basic devices, that are similar in usage to cigarettes, seem to largely be falling by the wayside and a more common sight is sub ohm vaping. Think the vast clouds that you see spewed forth from any number of people walking along the street these days. I think most people who use these do so because they actively want to vape and some people will continue to do so for ever more. This doesn't mean that electronic cigarettes can't be used to give up nicotine, but it is unlikely that those people will be thinking in that way.

 

Martian makes a good point about the addictive nature of vaping, although I believe it to be a little more nuanced than a question of pure addiction. I think what you are seeing is people with compulsive behaviours using vaping at extreme levels as you don't tend to get the same negative physical feedback when you over indulge. I know I used vaping in a fairly extreme manner and I think one of the things we are in danger of is seeing illnesses develop in different ways. For me I was unhappy with the mental turmoil. My compulsion meant I wasn't enjoying the precious time with my family as I was constantly looking for an out.

 

In terms of a push to allow people to vape anywhere they want it should not be given the time of day. It is ignorant, ill mannered and puts the desire of the individual to do what they want, when they want, above having the best possible environment for a community as a whole.

 

I am not surprised that young people are trying vaping and some will go on to smoke regular cigarettes beyond that. However I don't buy the arguments that I hear about it being a gateway to smoking. Most people will choose the things that they want to experience in life up to the point where the potential negative effects scare them too much to try it. I think those kids that vape and then move on to smoking were always going to smoke.

 

Ideally people will choose not to smoke and for those that do, when they give up, the best outcome would be that they manage it cold turkey. If they can't stop cold turkey and need an aid then by using Champix/Chantix or the route I took in NRT.

 

But here's the thing. If the people I love were to say to me it is smoking or vaping, I can't go without, then I'd plead with them to switch to vaping. I would love both my brother and sister to do so, because smoking will get them all too soon. I'm near certain that vaping would not be doing them the same level of physical damage. So really the question is what does quitting mean? Is it getting off nicotine in its entirety or is it getting off cigarettes? I think that is going to be one for the individual to make their minds up.

 

There was an interesting programme on TV here a couple of years back, a copy of which has been loaded to the dailymotion site for anyone that wants to watch it. It is informative, but given the subject matter, obviously doesn't have all the answers by a very long way.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5875ke

[brand.new.ela]

7 hours ago, WeegieWoman said:

I didn't realise they are sold to kids, that is wrong. They are, i thought, 'behind the counter' so i assumed there was some age limit.

If i was a kid now i reckon i would vape ha! You know what kids are like, well i know what i was like. Pure daftie, id try anything  

But overall i think, dont know the stats, but less folk are smoking. Thats the bigger picture and its positive....and thats great. 

Probably it depends on the country. Switzerland has a huge problem nowadays with kids of twelve seriously addicted and having full access to the stuff. 

[Devil Doll]

16 minutes ago, brand.new.ela said:

Probably it depends on the country. Switzerland has a huge problem nowadays with kids of twelve seriously addicted and having full access to the stuff. 

That is seriously sad. Tobacco products are not supposed to be sold to people under 18 here. It unfortunately happens anyway, my sons school contacted parents recently about the kids vaping (middle school 11-14 y/o). They would have random backpack checks with drug dogs and everything. Then again, how unrealistic is it? I started smoking when I was 13/14 ... that was before laws though... 

 

[Boo]

"The safer alternative."  

 

So, we can state with some degree of certainty that vaping is most likely safer than the deadliest commercial product in the history of mankind.

 

I don't think the threshold can be lowered anymore than that.

[Whispers]

41 minutes ago, Boo said:

"The safer alternative."  

 

So, we can state with some degree of certainty that vaping is most likely safer than the deadliest commercial product in the history of mankind.

 

I don't think the threshold can be lowered anymore than that.

Smokers are at a higher risk for 12 different types of cancer: Mouth & throat, esophagus, stomach, larynx, lungs, blood, kidney, pancreas, liver, cervix, bladder, colon & rectum.

 

 

[jillar]

On 7/4/2018 at 10:43 PM, Jetblack said:

What REALLY tripped me out is we have one member here who is always digging up these philosophical threads from years ago, who also tries to sound SO smart, but in one thread admitted to using weed. Like they are all about not smoking tobacco, but weed is alright.

 

She's not TRYING to sound smart, she is smart. I use weed too and  I pride myself on being smart regardless if I get high or not. I've had three successful businesses and paid off my house before I was 50 so this stoner must be doing something right. My ticker says since my last CIGARETTE and I stand true to it......

[zenith]

I pretty much agree replacing cigarettes with vaping is a non-solution. It frustrated me to no end to be lectured by my vaping friends about how "easy" it was for them to quit cigarettes or drastically cut down. I'm sure it was easier for them, but to me it defeats the entire purpose so I didn't even try it that way. Over a month in and I'm now very glad I don't have to deal with yet another quit. 

 

As for the "leafy green" I'm not against it but don't partake except on rare occasions, and I actually prefer edibles anyway.  I gave up booze soo it's kind of the least addictive vice I'd even consider these days if I was going to have one lol 

[Reciprocity]

Great work Z! Glad you are still nurturing your quit and I agree 100%. Get done with it asap so you can start enjoying all the benefits of being a nonsmoker. In my mind, going to vape is just trading one vice for another no matter which one in safer or worse than the other. You are still feeding your addiction.

Edited July 8, 2018 by reciprocity

[JB 883]

12 hours ago, jillar said:

 

She's not TRYING to sound smart, she is smart. I use weed too and  I pride myself on being smart regardless if I get high or not. I've had three successful businesses and paid off my house before I was 50 so this stoner must be doing something right. My ticker says since my last CIGARETTE and I stand true to it......

 

Alright fair enough.

So does that make you a non-smoker or just a non-tobacco user?

 

It just reminds me of when i was 19, it was me, my brother and a friend in the car. I was sitting in the back seat drinking a beer. My friend said in a condescending tone about open container laws. Not two minutes later, him and my brother are in the front toking away on a joint. And no, weed is not here now and was not legal then.

 

It is funny, tobacco users are the first to admit their habit is not good yet pot smokers will argue to no end that their habit is ok.

 

I have no clue about edibles. Doesn't sound good but cannot be as bad as smoking whatever.

[jillar]

22 minutes ago, Jetblack said:

 

So does that make you a non-smoker or just a non-tobacco user?

 

 

I consider myself an ex smoker. When people ask pot too I tell them no just cigarettes.

22 minutes ago, Jetblack said:

 

It is funny, tobacco users are the first to admit their habit is not good yet pot smokers will argue to no end that their habit is ok.

 

 

 

I don't consider weed a habit as it's not done on an hourly or even daily basis like cigarettes. Nor do you crave it when it's not around. 

The only reason I quoted you was your implication that because a member here uses weed she must not be smart.

[Whispers]

8 hours ago, reciprocity said:

Great work Z! Glad you are still nurturing your quit and I agree 100%. Get done with it asap so you can start enjoying all the benefits of being a nonsmoker. In my mind, going to vape is just trading one vice for another no matter which one in safer or worse than the other. You are still feeding your addiction.

My thoughts exactly

[Doreensfree]

I can only speak for myself...

Vaping was not for me...it still hand to mouth puffing on something..

I needed to change my habit completely...I do believe i would have just gone back to smoking...if I vaped...

I have no experience with weed....never used it...my ciggy habit was enough for me...I didn't need to look else where...

Took my first puff at 11 yrs...by the time I was 12 ..I was a addict for sure...

[Reciprocity]

^^^ This is a big part of it too Doreen. The motions of smoking. They say it takes 3 days to flush nicotine from your body so why is it that they recommend you stick around a support group like this for longer than that? It's the psychological part of it that takes the biggest effort for the longest time to overcome. Breaking mental triggers that might be different season to season, adjusting to better use of your time because you are not puffing away on something. This is the biggest challenge to most smokers I believe

[notsmokinjo]

11 hours ago, reciprocity said:

^^^ This is a big part of it too Doreen. The motions of smoking. They say it takes 3 days to flush nicotine from your body so why is it that they recommend you stick around a support group like this for longer than that? It's the psychological part of it that takes the biggest effort for the longest time to overcome. Breaking mental triggers that might be different season to season, adjusting to better use of your time because you are not puffing away on something. This is the biggest challenge to most smokers I believe

 

That's why I knew I couldn't quit cold turkey. The physical side is a kicker but I know myself well enough to know the biggest part of my addiction was the emotional/psychological side of it. Smokes, ergo nicotine, was my go to cure all, for everything, I couldn't even think about a problem without having a smoke or two first. How insane is that. Anyway I knew I needed to break the whole habit/muscle memory/routine side of things before I could fully rid my body of nicotine or I would not have been successful.

Edited July 9, 2018 by notsmokinjo

[Doreensfree]

I agree with anything that helps kick this killer addiction... All roads lead to Rome ect...

As long as that's all it is..a step down to quitting..

It's the folks who just swop one addiction for another...I know peeps who never put it down ..its in thier hand constantly......

I do believe...in years to come...we will be told just how bad Vaping really is....

 

[Whispers]

https://news.gsu.edu/2018/07/09/more-than-90-percent-of-smokers-using-e-cigarettes-still-smoking-a-year-later/

 

 

 

 

 

[Sslip]

It's a reasonable study and article, however the headline is a little misleading. The study is exclusively of those using both cigarettes and vaping in what is a relatively small sample set. By definition those people have not made a commitment to give up smoking.

 

An alternate headline could be 9% of those smoking and vaping, give up smoking without really trying. Or only 1 in 3 people return to smoking full time after introducing vaping.

 

A partial extract from the commentary by the author, "ENDS (Vaping) devices may not be providing a sufficiently satisfying nicotine delivery and overall user experience to completely supplant their smoking".

 

Vaping doesn't magically supplant smoking if someone does not specifically and willfully choose to give up cigarettes. Vaping is not as satisfying as smoking, so the best that can happen is cigarette consumption is reduced.

[notsmokinjo]

Really enjoying this thread and the mature discussion.

 

So brass tacks lets break this down...

• Vaping is less hazardous than smoking.
• Vaping is not safe.
• There are less chemicals in vaping than in ciggies.
• Vaping is a big unknown.
  • But as Sslip said, if it came to the choice of a family member smoking or vaping me, I'd be on my knees begging them to vape.
• Research on vaping, is new, vague, inconclusive and easily manipulated.
  • Its early days, its a new and evolving beast, its use is on the rise.
  • research is predominantly quantitative in nature not qualitative
    • Quantitative research is survey based, and looks at extrapolating numbers or percentage results without weighting for variables
    • Qualitative research tends to involve one on one interviews, in depth questioning on variables and/or physical investigation (tests) and analysis,
  • research tends to be from small groups, which detracts from its accuracy.
  • research pools have roughly 30% (or more) drop off rate, which on reporting doesn't always include in their presentation of research findings.
  • Both the pro & anti vaping camps are nit picking the data they want within the same studies to argue their opposing points.
    • This just muddies the waters.
  • As of yet, I have found only one decent piece of research into the health impacts of vaping and it identifies itself as not being thorough enough and that further research is needed.

Personally... vaping is not for me, it was never going to help me stop smoking  BUT  I think despite the fact there is still so much unknown about it, it does have its place in the scope of quitting... from what I have read, it helps some people to quit completely, it helps some people to quit smoking ciggies but they now vape instead, and it does nothing to help the majority. So what then is the difference between vaping and nrt gum?? (which is what i used to help me quit) ... NRT gum has an even smaller rate of successful quitters than vaping... there are some who quit smoking but for years later are still using NRT, there are some who use both... and there are more people still smoking than quit. BUT for some it is a successful tool to end their addiction... there are still lots of unkowns about the long term effecs of NRT.  So really, statistically, vaping is a more sucessful quit aid than nrt gum. Sometimes I wish I had a fast forward button so I can see what the long term science says.

 

37 minutes ago, Sslip said:

Vaping doesn't magically supplant smoking if someone does not specifically and willfully choose to give up cigarettes.

^^^That is the crux of the whole thing.... just switching from smoking to vaping isn't going to make you quit... you need to make the committment and do the hard frickin yards to keep that commitment and stop smoking... its like loosing weight you can't take a pill and not change your diet or exercise routine... you need to put in the work, you need to want it and only you can do it... you can use aids to ease the way but they wont make you quit only you can do that.

 

 

 

[Reciprocity]

Yeah well I think almost every one who smokes knows by now that it's not good for their health yet they can't or won't commit to quitting all together so they are eager to switch to a different method of delivering the addictive substance Nicotine! That's the "easy way out". As we all know, it's too early in research terms to know what the effects of vaping really are so therefore, it's very easy for people to convince themselves "it's safer"! It's gotta be because it doesn't have all those other deadly chemicals in it. It's not even smoke .... it's just vapor  

 

I think all of us a humans like to look for the easiest path in important life matters but deep down inside we also know, very little comes easy in life. Same is true, if not more, with quitting this addiction!